Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 13:25:34 -0600 From: Ariadne Conill <ariadne@...eferenced.org> To: musl@...ts.openwall.com Subject: Re: Advocating musl to in windows subsystem and OS X On Friday, June 12, 2020 1:05:02 PM MDT Luca Barbato wrote: > On 12/06/2020 19:37, Rich Felker wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 06:56:28PM +0200, Brian Peregrine wrote: > >> Hey all, > >> > >> after thinking about my previous post (Advocating musl to the chromium > >> OS developers ), it struck me that both Microsoft and Apple use some > >> sort of libc too (Microsoft has the "subsystem for linux" on windows > >> 10 now, and Apple's OS X is based on linux too -I think it was based > >> on the "Darwin" linux distro. > > > > No, OSX is in some sense a BSD fork, but with major architectural > > changes, and has nothing to do with Linux. Their libc is a BSD one > > (FreeBSD I think) with tons of gratuitous changes made that did little > > but intentionally break things, basically for NIH purposes/justifying > > the existence of the project. (This is much like Google's Fuchsia fork > > of musl.) > > > > musl does not run on OSX and while all of the pure-library code and > > stdio code could in principle be used, actually making "musl for OSX" > > would be a large project that doesn't make sense. What would make much > > more sense is either reusing code or making corresponding improvements > > based on things that are better in musl. > > > >> Microsoft probably uses glibc (as the subsystem seems to be > >> canonical-made and they use glibc in ubuntu), for os x, I'm not sure > >> what is being used. > >> See https://itsfoss.com/install-bash-on-windows/ > >> https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/microsoft-linux-distros-windows-10/ > >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3601092 > >> > >> In either case, Rich, perhaps you can propose to both that they use > >> musl, > > > > In some sense WSL doesn't "use" any libc; it's a thin syscall > > emulation layer (WSL1) or near-full-linux-vm (WSL2) that's supposed to > > be able to run any Linux userspace. My understanding is that they ship > > some glibc-based distro, and I don't see that being viable for them to > > change because they're supporting whatever users have built on it, but > > anyone's free to use whatever they prefer. > > > > On a higher level, I don't really want anyone shipping musl in places > > where the end user who receives it doesn't intend to use musl, for > > much the same reason that I don't like it when distros ship systemd to > > folks who don't intend to use systemd. It leads to gratuitous > > complaints from people who are unhappy that it's different from what > > they expect, and keep asking for changes to make it more glibc-like. > > I'd much rather seek out a user base that *wants* what's different > > about musl rather than "puts up with" what's different about musl. > > https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/alpine-wsl/9p804crf0395#activetab=pivot:ov > erviewtab > > This seems available. It is also not supported at all by Alpine team itself, and apk-tools 3 will break with WSL1 due to the way the new database code uses mmap access. In other words, if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces. Ariadne
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