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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:58:47 -0700
From: Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@...gle.com>
To: Daniel Micay <danielmicay@...il.com>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>, Herbert Xu <herbert@...dor.apana.org.au>, 
	"David S . Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>, 
	"H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>, 
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	Matthias Kaehlcke <mka@...omium.org>, Boris Ostrovsky <boris.ostrovsky@...cle.com>, 
	Juergen Gross <jgross@...e.com>, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@...hat.com>, 
	Radim Krčmář <rkrcmar@...hat.com>, 
	Joerg Roedel <joro@...tes.org>, Tom Lendacky <thomas.lendacky@....com>, 
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...e.de>, Brian Gerst <brgerst@...il.com>, 
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	Markus Trippelsdorf <markus@...ppelsdorf.de>, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>, 
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	Peter Foley <pefoley2@...oley.com>, Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@...ux.intel.com>, 
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>, Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@...aro.org>, 
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>, Matthew Wilcox <mawilcox@...rosoft.com>, 
	"H . J . Lu" <hjl.tools@...il.com>, Paul Bolle <pebolle@...cali.nl>, Rob Landley <rob@...dley.net>, 
	Baoquan He <bhe@...hat.com>, "the arch/x86 maintainers" <x86@...nel.org>, 
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	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>, Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>, 
	Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>
Subject: Re: x86: PIE support and option to extend KASLR randomization

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 7:47 AM, Daniel Micay <danielmicay@...il.com> wrote:
> On 15 August 2017 at 10:20, Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@...gle.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:56 AM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> * Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@...gle.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Do these changes get us closer to being able to build the kernel as truly
>>>> > position independent, i.e. to place it anywhere in the valid x86-64 address
>>>> > space? Or any other advantages?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, PIE allows us to put the kernel anywhere in memory. It will allow us to
>>>> have a full randomized address space where position and order of sections are
>>>> completely random. There is still some work to get there but being able to build
>>>> a PIE kernel is a significant step.
>>>
>>> So I _really_ dislike the whole PIE approach, because of the huge slowdown:
>>>
>>> +config RANDOMIZE_BASE_LARGE
>>> +       bool "Increase the randomization range of the kernel image"
>>> +       depends on X86_64 && RANDOMIZE_BASE
>>> +       select X86_PIE
>>> +       select X86_MODULE_PLTS if MODULES
>>> +       default n
>>> +       ---help---
>>> +         Build the kernel as a Position Independent Executable (PIE) and
>>> +         increase the available randomization range from 1GB to 3GB.
>>> +
>>> +         This option impacts performance on kernel CPU intensive workloads up
>>> +         to 10% due to PIE generated code. Impact on user-mode processes and
>>> +         typical usage would be significantly less (0.50% when you build the
>>> +         kernel).
>>> +
>>> +         The kernel and modules will generate slightly more assembly (1 to 2%
>>> +         increase on the .text sections). The vmlinux binary will be
>>> +         significantly smaller due to less relocations.
>>>
>>> To put 10% kernel overhead into perspective: enabling this option wipes out about
>>> 5-10 years worth of painstaking optimizations we've done to keep the kernel fast
>>> ... (!!)
>>
>> Note that 10% is the high-bound of a CPU intensive workload.
>
> The cost can be reduced by using -fno-plt these days but some work
> might be required to make that work with the kernel.
>
> Where does that 10% estimate in the kernel config docs come from? I'd
> be surprised if it really cost that much on x86_64. That's a realistic
> cost for i386 with modern GCC (it used to be worse) but I'd expect
> x86_64 to be closer to 2% even for CPU intensive workloads. It should
> be very close to zero with -fno-plt.

I got 8 to 10% on hackbench. Other benchmarks were 4% or lower.

I will do look at more recent compiler and no-plt as well.

-- 
Thomas

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