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Message-ID: <aLWdDMtMR9i1nMRy@mail.hallyn.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2025 08:18:04 -0500
From: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>
To: Jann Horn <jannh@...gle.com>
Cc: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@...har.com>,
Mickaël Salaün <mic@...ikod.net>,
Christian Brauner <brauner@...nel.org>,
Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>, Paul Moore <paul@...l-moore.com>,
Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
Christian Heimes <christian@...hon.org>,
Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@...gle.com>, Elliott Hughes <enh@...gle.com>,
Fan Wu <wufan@...ux.microsoft.com>,
Florian Weimer <fweimer@...hat.com>, Jeff Xu <jeffxu@...gle.com>,
Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
Jordan R Abrahams <ajordanr@...gle.com>,
Lakshmi Ramasubramanian <nramas@...ux.microsoft.com>,
Luca Boccassi <bluca@...ian.org>,
Matt Bobrowski <mattbobrowski@...gle.com>,
Miklos Szeredi <mszeredi@...hat.com>,
Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.ibm.com>,
Nicolas Bouchinet <nicolas.bouchinet@....cyber.gouv.fr>,
Robert Waite <rowait@...rosoft.com>,
Roberto Sassu <roberto.sassu@...wei.com>,
Scott Shell <scottsh@...rosoft.com>,
Steve Dower <steve.dower@...hon.org>,
Steve Grubb <sgrubb@...hat.com>,
kernel-hardening@...ts.openwall.com, linux-api@...r.kernel.org,
linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 0/2] Add O_DENY_WRITE (complement AT_EXECVE_CHECK)
On Mon, Sep 01, 2025 at 01:05:16PM +0200, Jann Horn wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2025 at 11:01 PM Serge E. Hallyn <serge@...lyn.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 05:32:02PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 5:14 PM Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@...har.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 2025-08-26, Mickaël Salaün <mic@...ikod.net> wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2025 at 11:07:03AM +0200, Christian Brauner wrote:
> > > > > > Nothing has changed in that regard and I'm not interested in stuffing
> > > > > > the VFS APIs full of special-purpose behavior to work around the fact
> > > > > > that this is work that needs to be done in userspace. Change the apps,
> > > > > > stop pushing more and more cruft into the VFS that has no business
> > > > > > there.
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be interesting to know how to patch user space to get the same
> > > > > guarantees... Do you think I would propose a kernel patch otherwise?
> > > >
> > > > You could mmap the script file with MAP_PRIVATE. This is the *actual*
> > > > protection the kernel uses against overwriting binaries (yes, ETXTBSY is
> > > > nice but IIRC there are ways to get around it anyway).
> > >
> > > Wait, really? MAP_PRIVATE prevents writes to the mapping from
> > > affecting the file, but I don't think that writes to the file will
> > > break the MAP_PRIVATE CoW if it's not already broken.
> > >
> > > IPython says:
> > >
> > > In [1]: import mmap, tempfile
> > >
> > > In [2]: f = tempfile.TemporaryFile()
> > >
> > > In [3]: f.write(b'initial contents')
> > > Out[3]: 16
> > >
> > > In [4]: f.flush()
> > >
> > > In [5]: map = mmap.mmap(f.fileno(), f.tell(), flags=mmap.MAP_PRIVATE,
> > > prot=mmap.PROT_READ)
> > >
> > > In [6]: map[:]
> > > Out[6]: b'initial contents'
> > >
> > > In [7]: f.seek(0)
> > > Out[7]: 0
> > >
> > > In [8]: f.write(b'changed')
> > > Out[8]: 7
> > >
> > > In [9]: f.flush()
> > >
> > > In [10]: map[:]
> > > Out[10]: b'changed contents'
> >
> > That was surprising to me, however, if I split the reader
> > and writer into different processes, so
>
> Testing this in python is a terrible idea because it obfuscates the
> actual syscalls from you.
Hah, I was just trying to fit in :), but of course you're right.
Redoing it in straight c, I'm getting the updates.
-serge
// mmap-w.c (creates an overwrites)
#include <stdio.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#define FIRST "Initial contents"
#define SECOND "updated contents"
int main() {
int fd, rc;
char c;
fd = open("/tmp/m", O_CREAT | O_RDWR, 0644);
if (fd < 0) {
printf("failed to open /tmp/m: %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
rc = write(fd, FIRST, sizeof(FIRST));
if (rc < 0) {
printf("write failed: %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
rc = fsync(fd);
if (rc < 0) {
printf("flush failed: %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
read(STDIN_FILENO, &c, 1);
printf("updating the contents\n");
rc = lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_SET);
if (rc < 0) {
printf("seek failed; %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
rc = write(fd, SECOND, sizeof(SECOND));
if (fd < 0) {
printf("write failed: %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
rc = close(fd);
if (rc < 0) {
printf("close failed: %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
printf("done\n");
}
// mmap-r.c (checks and re-checks contents)
#include <stdio.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <sys/mman.h>
#include <string.h>
#define FIRST "Initial contents"
#define SECOND "Updated contents"
int main() {
int fd, rc;
char *m;
char c;
fd = open("/tmp/m", O_RDONLY);
if (fd < 0) {
printf("failed to open /tmp/m: %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
m = mmap(NULL, 40, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, fd, 0);
if (m == MAP_FAILED) {
printf("mmap failed: %m\n");
_exit(1);
}
if (strncmp(m, FIRST, 7) != 0) {
printf("m is %c%c%c%c%c%c%c\n",
m[0], m[1], m[2], m[3], m[4], m[5], m[6]);
_exit(1);
}
read(STDIN_FILENO, &c, 1);
if (strncmp(m, SECOND, 7) != 0) {
printf("m is %c%c%c%c%c%c%c\n",
m[0], m[1], m[2], m[3], m[4], m[5], m[6]);
_exit(1);
}
printf("done\n");
}
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