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Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:07:24 +0300
From: Shinnok <>
Subject: Re: irc channel for Openwall

Hash: SHA1

On 04/11/2011 05:08 PM, Solar Designer wrote:
> With GSoC, I think it makes sense for us to schedule meetings on the
> channel, maybe weekly.

Yes with GSoC it will be very helpful, in both directions.

> Right.  My concern, though, is that this may result in useful
> discussions (such as with JtR usage tips) going IRC-only, with nothing
> posted about them to the proper mailing lists.  Thus, answers to users'
> questions, etc. will benefit a lot fewer people than they do on the
> mailing lists.

Just as with any other issue, there is a tradeoff here, we either lose
useful discussions/answers or users, since I know that there are lots of
*lazy*(if I may, there might be a better word for it though) people out
there that rather then firing off an e-mail would give up on the
tool/task. In that subset of people and overflowing out of it there is
another subset that would prefer irc chat over e-mail either because it
is more interactive and supposedly faster(perception or not) or just
aren't that accustomed with e-mail at all. In the first case, of losing
useful discussions/answers, we can educate a handful of people(main
project members and contributors) to properly handle
important/interesting stuff going on #openwall, but in the second case
for lazy people, you have no chance nor the medium/audience to do so.
A few methods for educating the first class, is to advertise the wiki with a FAQ on each major issue discussed on
#openwall(JtR, Owl, etc..) and encourage to add to that page any
useful/interesting answers that go on on the channel to it(and lists
too, why not). Another big issue with irc as you mentioned is important
decisions taken on IRC by project members that stay there, this one can
also be handled by educating project members that any important
decisions and discussions must be summarized and sent to the appropriate
mailing list too. As mentioned before, it's easier to educate a handful
of people that you have knowledge of and access to them, rather then
educating a general crowd.

> Thank you!  I appreciate this.  Would you also post about important
> discussions, helpful tips, etc. to the proper mailing lists?  That would
> be great.

Proper mailing list for discussions/decisions yes, and tips to the Wiki.
Only outstanding hacks/tips should be fired off to mailing lists imo.

> I think we need to inform owl-users once there's someone idling on the
> channel (that is, on #openwall on Freenode).  Feel free to post in there.

We might as well do it now, oh and you should be the one to do it. See
my answer to Galaxy's e-mail to this thread on why is that exactly. :-)

(Yes I know you are busy enough, but later is fine too ofc.)

> Thanks again,
> Alexander


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