Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:45:40 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour <demi@...isiblethingslab.com> To: oss-security@...ts.openwall.com Subject: Re: sandboxing,of upstream programs by distros On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 02:06:49AM +0200, Solar Designer wrote: > Hi Matt, > > I'm sorry I didn't follow up on this sooner. > > On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 06:39:49PM +1100, Matthew Fernandez wrote: > > Is there interest/solutions within the Rock Security SIG or other > > distro's security teams for sandboxing that package upstreams can opt > > into? > > For Rocky Linux Security SIG, the only relevant thing mentioned so far > was possibly offering an OpenBSD pledge()-alike that other packages > could use. However, I am skeptical any actually would, unless we also > introduce such uses ourselves and maintain own "override" packages > (replacing RHEL rebuild ones or those coming from EPEL, etc.) of such > software. Initially, we are going to only create "override' packages > for core or very commonly used/exposed components, and to do so only for > specific good reasons. So stuff like e.g. ImageMagick/GraphicsMagick > coming from EPEL and with most of its dependency libraries coming from > AppStream repos, or e.g. GraphViz coming from AppStream, is unlikely to > make the cut, at least not initially. Has deprecating ImageMagick and/or GraphicsMagick outright been considered? I don’t just mean the downstream packages, but the entire upstream projects, or at least the libraries. > Also, continuing these examples, it's probably more realistic to sandbox > their command-line tools, whereas the underlying libraries are probably > more exposed via language bindings. Would we be introducing creation of > child processes into the libraries? That's tricky as it could violate > expectations of programs using such libraries. (Yet at Openwall we did > a similar thing in pam_tcb, albeit limiting this maybe-unexpected > behavior to setups that opted-in to it with the "fork" option in the PAM > configuration file. So it's not completely out of consideration.) One option would be to instead make an IPC call to a persistent daemon running in the background. That said, has wasm2c been considered? The best fix would be something that can make C code memory-safe, even if it comes at a performance hit of 4x or more (like SoftBound+CETS did). Stuff that cares about performance should be migrating to something like libvips or ImageFlow. If neither of these are options, I think the entire library will need to be deprecated for eventual removal. The command-line tools can remain, but they can be much more strongly sandboxed than a library can, because they have the entire process to themselves. -- Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) Invisible Things Lab Download attachment "signature.asc" of type "application/pgp-signature" (834 bytes)
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