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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 21:13:52 +0200
From: Solar Designer <>
Subject: Re: unresponsive distros

On Thu, Jun 01, 2017 at 06:26:29PM +0000, Liguori, Anthony wrote:
> To be a bit more transparent.

I appreciate that!

> The ideal thing for us would be to use a non-personally owned key for decryption so we could automate ingestion.  Encryption is fine but I will not tie my personal key into Amazon infrastructure.
> Normally what we do with disclosure lists is have automation that pages people on every message.  As an example, I get paged for every email sent to the Xen disclosure list.

The use of per-person keys is in part to discourage the kinds of setup
you describe.  Yes, automation is great, but it's also elevated risk.

If by "automate ingestion" you mean creating tracking tickets in some
system even for issues that upon your reading would clearly be
irrelevant to Amazon (so you wouldn't be creating tickets for them now),
then I'm glad the current setup prevents that.  Leaks via bug trackers
is currently my primary concern.

> The encrypted thread is a single thread with a high volume of messages.  The later part of the thread loses the context of you explicitly asking for a response.
> Coupled with the holiday weekend, that meant when I read through the thread I read too quickly and missed your explicit request.

Fair enough, although I think the need for a response from all
resurfaced in several messages.

> Had you changed the subject of the thread for the request, it would have been noticed immediately but I don't mean to point too many fingers here.

Not changing the Subject was part of the test, and it's not an arbitrary
test: in this very same thread, several other/new issues were brought up
also without a Subject change (including something new today).  So I was
wondering: is this working?  Now I know: works for most distros, but not
for all.  I don't know whether it works for 50%+ of people, though,
since many of the distros have multiple people subscribed, whereas I
only required one response per distro.  Maybe I'll do a per-person test
another time. ;-)

For new software issues, maybe we should be bringing the additional
affected component names into the Subject each time.  After all, it's
not sensitive info that any and all software has bugs.  By saying e.g.
"Sudo" in the Subject, we merely reveal what we currently discuss, not
that there's suddenly anything special about Sudo.  No one sane would
have expected Sudo not to contain any more vulnerabilities ever, so the
very fact there's another vulnerability is mostly not actionable for an
attacker (unless they'd use it to decide on whether/when to attack the
distros list infrastructure or/and specific list members maybe? seems
far-fetched - in practice, either they'd attack and try to retain
access, or fail at it, or not do that at all).  We reveal the same by
CC'ing Todd anyway.  Things get trickier when e.g. a new issue is found
in the same component - do we use e.g. "Sudo another issue", not to
reveal the specifics?

It's tough.  What's clearer to me is that I should insist on fewer and
shorter embargoes.

To summarize: I am speaking out loud, and not suggesting any particular
change right now.  Amazon will stay subscribed as-is for now.


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