Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:31:51 -0500 From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@...thhorseman.net> To: oss-security@...ts.openwall.com Subject: Re: Re: Fuzzing project brainstorming On 11/20/2014 02:23 PM, Hanno Böck wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:52:15 -0800 > "M.T. Roebuck" <marvint.roebuck@...ox.lv> wrote: > >> Maybe my problem is that your proposal seems herculean to me but >> can't help to think it's a reminder or sign that we need to think >> past the current state of things. > > Compared to "starting from scratch" starting such a fuzzing project is > not herculean, it's more like grabbing the low hanging fruit. > > But arguments alike come up every now and then. Basically you'll hear > two things: "We have to mitigate / sandbox" and "please rewrite > everything in [insert favorite non-C programming language]". > > I don't want to downplay either of these approaches. It's just that you > have to be realistic. Nobody will rewrite everything from scratch in > rust/go/haskell/whatever any time soon. There are a few interesting > projects that try to rewrite key sofware in safer languages (mitls and > servo come to mind), but they are few and none of them is in a > production state. > > Our systems we have today - the ones we use to have this discussion, > manage our bank accounts and surf the web - have imperfect software > written mostly in unsafe languages. I feel fuzzing can improve the > state of things a lot. I agree with this sentiment. I also think this is likely to be a herculean effort, and hopefully not quite a sisyphean one (the boulder should be able to move up the hill a little bit each time). I'm really happy that you're pushing on this, Hanno. even if the only thing that comes out of it is a classification of which projects/libraries insist on "trusted input" that would be a very useful outcome. --dkg Download attachment "signature.asc" of type "application/pgp-signature" (950 bytes)
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