Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 23:01:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Ramon de C Valle <rdecvalle@...are.com> To: oss-security@...ts.openwall.com Cc: Solar Designer <solar@...nwall.com>, VMware Security Response Center <security@...are.com>, Monty Ijzerman <mijzerman@...are.com> Subject: Re: Request for linux-distros subscription -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg KH" <greg@...ah.com> > To: oss-security@...ts.openwall.com > Cc: "Solar Designer" <solar@...nwall.com>, "VMware Security Response Center" <security@...are.com>, "Monty Ijzerman" > <mijzerman@...are.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 2:23:25 AM > Subject: Re: [oss-security] Request for linux-distros subscription > > On Wed, Jun 04, 2014 at 10:07:34PM -0700, Ramon de C Valle wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > > > - ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Greg KH" <greg@...ah.com> > > > To: oss-security@...ts.openwall.com > > > Cc: "Solar Designer" <solar@...nwall.com>, "VMware Security Response > > > Center" <security@...are.com>, "Monty Ijzerman" > > > <mijzerman@...are.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 1:09:29 AM > > > Subject: Re: [oss-security] Request for linux-distros subscription > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 04, 2014 at 12:33:13PM -0700, Ramon de C Valle wrote: > > > > Hi Alexander, > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 01:16:47PM -0700, Ramon de C Valle wrote: > > > > > > I can attest that Monty is my colleague and the Manager of VMware > > > > > > Security > > > > > > Response Center. As a former colleague of you (Kurt) and also > > > > > > former > > > > > > linux-distros subscriber, I would like to ask for your > > > > > > consideration > > > > > > for > > > > > > subscribing Monty (or myself) to linux-distros on behalf of VMware. > > > > > > Although ESXi isn't a Linux distribution, it implements > > > > > > Linux-compatible > > > > > > system calls and provides a GNU/Linux -like ecosystem that allows > > > > > > many > > > > > > applications that are compiled on/for Linux operating systems to > > > > > > run > > > > > > seamlessly. This ecosystem includes OSS that should be supported in > > > > > > timely > > > > > > fashion pretty much like like any other Linux distribution on the > > > > > > list. > > > > > > It > > > > > > also implements a Linux kernel module interface and uses many Linux > > > > > > device > > > > > > drivers and kernel modules that also should be supported. In > > > > > > addition, > > > > > > ESXi is the base layer that many of the Linux distributions on the > > > > > > list > > > > > > rely upon and run atop of in many datacenters around the world. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, Ramon. This is pretty good rationale, but I feel that > > > > > getting VMware onto linux-distros for the reasons given above would > > > > > be a > > > > > (possibly desirable) change in who the list is for. So far, it's > > > > > been > > > > > for Linux distros, and I deliberately chose the linux-distros name > > > > > for > > > > > it. Now a non-Linux-distro wants to be specifically on linux-distros > > > > > (not just on distros), and be exposed to Linux-specific vulnerability > > > > > details (albeit for good reasons). I'd appreciate comments by others > > > > > active in this community. > > > > I'm afraid I can't comment on Greg's comments due to my lack of legal > > > > understanding. However, in addition to the reasons explained above and > > > > also Alan's comments (which, IMO, also add to our reasons), I'd also > > > > appreciate comments by others active in this community and would be > > > > happy to answer any questions anyone might have. > > > > > > Ok, let's keep this on a purely community basis, no legal issues > > > involved (to quell the tide of private emails about this as well.) > > > > > > Your company takes the Linux kernel drivers (a large majority of the > > > Linux kernel source tree) and builds a product around it, while refusing > > > to contribute back to those drivers. What you are doing has been > > > explicitly stated as something you should not be doing by a number of > > > community members. Somehow you feel that your tiny "core" of a custom > > > kernel is more important than the larger body of community work you are > > > relying on in order for that core to work properly. > > I'd appreciate any references to back the "a large majority of the > > Linux kernel source tree", "while refusing to contribute back to those > > drivers", and "tiny "core" of a custom kernel" statements if you want > > me to make any comments. > > You referenced it above in your statement about why you want to be part > of the group. You write: > It also implements a Linux kernel module interface and uses many > Linux device drivers and kernel modules that also should be > supported. > > That Linux kernel driver codebase is huge, and odds are, much larger > than the core kernel you are linking it to (just by the virtue of the > fact that the Linux kernel core is much smaller than the driver portion > of the source tree you are using.) If I'm wrong in that your kernel is > much larger than the drivers being used here, well, you all are doing > something wrong :) It wasn't said that we use every Linux kernel driver in the Linux kernel source tree; And you're also assuming that the only thing that is shipped in our product that is developed by us is the kernel core. > > > > Because of this reliance on that large body of code, you are now asking > > > to be notified ahead of time about vulnerabilities in that code base by > > > the same community members you are ignoring in the first place. > > Same for "Because of this reliance on that large body of code". > > > > > > > > Does that seem like a fair thing to be asking for? > > > > > > To me it does not, but feel free to persuade me otherwise. > > My intention isn't to persuade anyone. > > Well, as that is what you are supposed to be doing in order to get > admission, it seems odd that you don't intend to do this. Like I said, my intention isn't to persuade anyone. If everyone thinks that we shouldn't be subscribed to linux-distros, that's fine. > > > If everyone thinks that we shouldn't be subscribed to linux-distros, > > that's fine. I just would like a fair reasoning of why not, instead of > > biased and emotionally-filled comments. > > Taking emotions out of humans and decisions causes other major problems, > don't try to do that. On the linux-distro list, you will have to be > interacting with (well, supposed to be) the humans of those open source > projects in order to address the issues found on the list. Those > community members are actual people with emotions and histories of > dealing with companies in various manners. If you somehow think that > they will not react in ways that they feel are in the best interest of > their project's long-term interests, well, then you are forgetting how > open source communities work. > > thanks, > > greg k-h > - -- Ramon de C Valle VMware Product Security Engineering -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTkAeNAAoJEMHrzpMNBOIMFqIQAJnalhlQSDsct4MPeSZqtvRP c0CEUFvT3k/O/sTnkJiIEsyC4p1dxCeE7tDPm9Vpz3xVLrIEgwG3NpqoU8V2YAz1 zKn3Gl2GRavn6OyGK1tZl77a6PxlHb99Mp+KW+1YdS5wuIqfzg3WkDU0yHHwEdyP y9zGccqoiP9DK5SkxN8HoCdTrQ81JAGxkqOzMLVCo2EiUeu2yh7Yf1o71LlO7zQb MXWmYwRl5Pu82BAhncht2Ub2NAy9yjjhyPtgZrLjdSY2WoZBFFSGRsc/D5y7+vNn CTgBDmakn4uZQBHtZnyVxt/hqTX5u8MTKHDIKxJMYB0NgSziGFXQBsdu3bf3Q2/U VHBkGnCQSA0Dfb1MbrEd5gop0wzwdjvYRtkFGixUvG9DDgqYMrI2xJI6tdoVhu5H eUctvue/LT7AITY2ODy/sdp+MbhMsuhaQAjXWcDfkaEMIFpNY0GH4MaqmNntaXxg YRbhAjCMsxZ1YB6O32V7wd5aiNQGKWNk9/zEonjYRrc6ISMlnDzW6abKv6SW6h3K LRWA9mXb9xfWu+tPhg2244uzsQtCWkFy9+t4fX36/yAgmiGIYlqae+JsuRD3hL3U cBuVSPVg/6xcRSjp/qTDYKHz/iG9QGGHL4iSntMLrX403YaV4ahd15Ew/mQL4WMy qm+d8BUZx08hsQ8q+vvI =kdZx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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