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Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 08:14:20 +0200
From: "e@...tmx.net" <e@...tmx.net>
To: passwords@...ts.openwall.com
Subject: GMOs And Passwords

(on the web: ithipster.com/38.html)

Before you indulge into an experiment investigating the effects of 
whatever quality of a subject, it is the best for you to make sure 
beforehand that the quality in question does belong to your subject.

We colloquially say: «a red pencil» as if it is not a question whether a 
pencil can be red. Indeed, it can. In this particular case our 
«intuition» coincide with physical reality. We can create an experiment 
that demonstrates a possibility of any colour be a quality of a pencil. 
We can clearly define «red» as a specific feature of the light spectrum, 
and we can unambiguously link those spectra to each pencil. We can see 
(experimentally) that some pencils share this quality, while some do 
not. Even if the dividing line between these sets is fuzzy, we now have 
a CHARACTERISTIC PROPERTY of a «red pencil»: all red pencils share this 
property, and all non red do not have it. Facing a pencil, we can 
(experimentally) determine if it is red (and to what extent).

It is perfectly legitimate for anyone to call a pencil «red» or 
otherwise tag a pencil with a colour, because of the physics, not 
because the language allows it. Language is equally suitable for 
describing reality and nonsense as well.


Now, I give you two grains of wheat, one is «GMO» and another isn't.
Can you conceive an experiment that tells me which is which?


Maybe it is time to make one step back and determine if «GMO» is a 
quality of an organism? Is there any CHARACTERISTIC PROPERTY of a «GM 
organism», something that all «GM» subjects share, while none of the 
rest have? Please, define this property for me. ...or simply ask 
yourself (every time you are looking for the magical label on the food 
package) what is this characteristic property I am looking for?

Now, as you have yelled at me all your suggestions, think carefully 
which of them is actually a property of an organism. Not single one. All 
that you have come up with are qualities of a production process or a 
design process or even earlier. None of those can be observed in a grain 
of wheat.

Observing a car, can you tell, for example, a difference between a car 
that was sketched with HB pencil and a car sketched with 2B pencil 
during their stage of development? In case of a car you would not claim 
that all qualities of a design phase are inherited by the product. You 
may consider me foolish to even suggest this very possibility. It is too 
obvious for you that a car and a car production process are two wildly 
different objects. Ok, then. What makes you claim that «GM» property of 
an organism design process is also a quality of a resulted organism? 
Hopefully you are not going to claim that organisms and their production 
processes are the same object.

However, you may legitimately conjecture that this particular property 
somehow translates from the design process to the organism. This is why 
I gave you these two grains of wheat. Take them and prove your 
conjecture. Show me the CHARACTERISTIC PROPERTY of «GMO».

I know you are wondering what all this nonsense has to do with passwords.
Well, this is all about the information entropy, which you do happily 
assign to your passwords without even a glimpse of doubt: IS IT REALLY A 
QUALITY OF A PASSWORD??? CAN I CREATE A CHARACTERISTIC RELATION THAT 
MAPS PASSWORDS ON REAL NUMBERS AND IS A FUNCTION???

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